Thanks to Lisa / DJ Sweet Li for sharing this video from this week in Central London for us to look at.
What we appear to see is a kid fleeing ,what the shared video stated was, a street robbery of a phone.
Firstly and importantly, I want to say that I am not a legal expert in ANY way, but probably neither are you reading this as a UK public member merely interested in personal safety.
Perhaps you are a reader from outside the UK interested in what the situation is like here as an example of self defence in a restrictive environment in terms of options for defending yourself?
These areas are where my interest lies and I just share ideas based on those. I have no interest in any “sheepdog” mentality bullshit or a LARPing fantasy of police affiliation. I have several ex-police friends reading this and I’m sure they will understand what I mean here.
If your job has a description that says to protect the property of an employer, then that's between you and your employer and having worked in this position, I sympathise.
Before I say anything about this video, please consider the following. These are quotes from advice to UK prosecutors dealing with cases where the public attempts to “prevent loss of property” using civilian powers of arrest and there is a potential counter claim against their actions:
“Civilian Powers of Arrest
Care must be taken, when assessing the evidence in a case involving the purported exercising of civilian powers of arrest. Such powers of arrest are dependent upon certain preconditions.
Members of the public (other than constables) may only arrest for "indictable" offences.
Any force used to affect the arrest may be an assault and unlawful; and any force used to resist the arrest may be lawful (see R v Self 95 Cr. App R. 42).”
There are 2 conditions which apply:-
That there are reasonable grounds to believe the arrest is necessary for a reason specified; and
It is not reasonably practical for a constable to make the arrest” (1 – see notes, Jeth)
“The reasons specified are to prevent the person in question:-
Causing physical injury to himself or any other person
Suffering physical injury
Causing loss of or damage to property
Making off before a constable can assume responsibility” (2 / see notes, Jeth)
OK, so this above is an idea of what you will be facing if there are any questions about your actions were you to be involved in something like this.
Some general thoughts...
The big dude gets the world's most slow – motion sacrifice takedown, literally give us a hug and fall over and pins him easily with weight.
Abandoning the kid for a woman to deal with would have been shameful before these insane times but now? Not being there after a reflexive response to help might be the best move.
(Also she looks disturbingly like a certain female politician from Scotland...busting out rear chokes…).
Placing yourself in this position then, you will be dealing with:
“Let go of my neck / I can't breathe” – is now a ready made manipulation of emotions in those passing by, especially if they're late to the party and get a different picture of what is happening.
Others filming you.
“What's going on?” / “Boss help me!” Trying to recruit others against you.
Others with various agendas telling you to let him go or that you're doing something wrong.
The more people around you, the more you are now at real risk from aggressive third party intervention against YOU.
Allowing this kid to stand was a terrible idea.
What can he do to you now that he's regained his feet?
Is he armed?
“Leave me alone!”– is the indignation of being unexpectedly held to account for one's own actions. Like the tantrum of a toddler, told off for the first time.
Street taxation is regarded as a right in some quarters, it's the victim's fault anyway! (and if the aggrieved party is caught, it's society's fault) and it will be you who is seen as being out of line if you try and “block that wish” and you will be seen to deserve anything that comes to you as a result.
You're now surrounded by possible accomplices of the kid, telling you to let him go while you try to ring the cops. You will have no idea in this situation who is who.
Some things to consider:
You are not defending you or a family member here but property, which is also not yours.
That phone was probably insured and would have been replaced. The same can't be said of you, your health, finances, legal situation etc if this doesn't go the way you expect.
Will the viewpoint I'm putting forth be seen as selfish and part of the problem? Quite possibly so, but I've written about this many times.
It's a personal decision whether or not you will tolerate being robbed for your money or possessions, it's also just as much of a personal a decision if you as an individual will risk your life, health and more for someone else's phone.
I just don't have that level of trust in those around me and don’t wish involvement with the legal system, if you should/ shouldn’t is a decision for you to make.
There is still very much an angry disgust from most decent people in watching degenerates treat the street as a violent playground where they enjoy bullying and practicing aggression with seeming impunity. There is still an instinctive urge in some to “do the right thing” and intervene.
But this is a very different social landscape than previously and the agendas and prejudices people have absorbed and will project like well trained Pavlovian dogs at the drop of a hat will always have you at a disadvantage.
Thanks Lisa, for sending this in.
Notes
(1 )- No police were present in the video that we can see, so that is one justifiable criteria for citizen's arrest seeming to be confirmed.
(2) – A second criteria seeming to be in place is that this factor was in the process of happening and indeed may still have happened after one guy is left restraining him on his own as kids start surrounding and other public members have backed off at the end of the video.
See also:
311 - Mailbox: Public vs Loss of property