496 - (FREE TO READ) Mailbox: Reader questions, "Can you respond with force?"
Mr C. Arnivore asks about use of force in the UK
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Hi Jeth,
There are several questions I was wondering about from watching YouTube videos, about the appropriate level of response to things that aren't quite an attack?
(Thanks for the message and questions!
How do you know in the moment that it’s not an attack? Will it/ will it not continue?
I’m not trying to be flippant in my response but rather to point out that it is how you genuinely interpret someone’s actions towards you at the moment of conflict, because that’s all you’ll get to make possibly life-affecting decisions, that will be what dictates what happens next…)
There's a video where a teenage kid snatches a guy's hat and gets a slap before the hat is taken back. What's an appropriate response? Have they assaulted you, can you respond with force?
(Some who are perhaps not prone to thinking ahead may say “Just hit ‘im” or “He deserves it”.
Good luck with that.
Is taking your hat goading to get you to react and then beat you senseless? How many people are involved, the situation starts to look different depending on circumstances. How old is “the kid”? What about you?
If someone steals your hat as in the example you give, you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend your property and belongings - UK legal expert sources quote a tackle or single punch as being an example of reasonable force use here. But one person’s punch is not the same as another’s - one gives a nosebleed and the other ends with a death and being branded a “one punch killer” in the press. You need to decide ahead of time what you are willing to possibly have your life ruined for because that is what the legal process will do to you.)
How about if someone spits at you? They haven't actually made contact but does that constitute an assault? Can you, should you, respond with a strike? What if someone throws a drink at you, I suppose that's a similar situation?
(Are you punching them to stop them spitting again or doing some other assaultive action? If yes, well you may be able to justify reasonable force. If they spat at you and left and you followed them to then strike them, well…
“Spitting on someone is classed as battery under the common assault category of the Criminal Justice Act 1988. Battery is the application of unlawful force, and as well as spitting, covers incidents of pushing and slapping. Spitting, if done deliberately, is seen as an assault.
“Common assault carries a maximum penalty of six months in prison and/or a fine or community order. A prison sentence is generally reserved for cases where serious injury was caused, and higher culpability is present. The offender will have higher culpability if they have previous convictions or there are aggravating factors, such as the attack being racially motivated, the assault was premeditated, or the victim was vulnerable. In other cases, a fine and community order is the more likely outcome.”
“Common Assault – s.39 Criminal Justice Act 1988:
An assault is any act (and not mere omission to act) by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer or apprehend immediate unlawful violence.
The term assault is often used to include a battery, which is committed by the intentional or reckless application of unlawful force to another person. Where there is a battery, the defendant should be charged with ‘assault by beating’: DPP v Little [1992] QB 645. Provided there has been an intentional or reckless application of unlawful force the offence will have been committed, however slight the force.
Assault, as distinct from battery, can be committed by an act indicating an intention to use unlawful violence against the person of another – for example, an aimed punch that fails to connect. In Misalati [2017] EWCA 2226 the appellant spat towards the complainant. The appeal court confirmed that although there was no actual violence, spitting is an assault whether it makes contact with the victim or causes fear of immediate unlawful physical contact.
A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for the purposes of:
self-defence
defence of another
defence of property
prevention of crime; or
lawful arrest.
An element of the offence of common assault is lack of consent so that the prosecution may (where it is a live issue) have to establish that the offence was committed without consent. However, a lack of consent can be inferred from evidence other than the direct evidence of the victim – CPS v Shabbir [2009] EWHC 2754 (Admin). Most of the physical contacts of ordinary life are not actionable because they are impliedly consented to by all who move in society and so expose themselves to the risk of bodily contact: Collins v Wilcock [1984] 1 WLR 1172.
Common assault is a summary offence. However, if the requirements of section 40 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 are met it can be included as a count on an indictment.”
Throwing or pouring a drink at/on someone, despite often being depicted as perfectly OK in the media for a woman to do if insulted, is also a form of common assault and has the potential for charges as from what I have read, it has the possibility of harming rather than necessarily actually harming the intended victim. There are several cops/ solicitors reading this who may wish to correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this is the case from research.)
How about if a looney woman is attacking you, say with windmill arm slaps. You wouldn't want to knock her out but what would be an appropriate response or defence? My fav would be using a chair, lion tamer style :)
(It depends on the level of threat that a woman represents and to whom. There have been men aquitted of killings in the UK because of the threat that a woman posed due to physical size or being armed. The key is disparity of force not gender: what one person may consider to be a manageable threat may seem off-the-charts for someone else possessing less physical agency.
As a side note, I spoke recently to a highly experienced medical trainer who told me that there had been cases of women who had died needing CPR and a heart defibrillator but that male responders at the scene wouldn’t undo a woman’s clothing for fear of being accused of sexual offences.
In terms of defending against a violent woman, what if she were attacking children or others? There was an incident reported in the UK of a woman stabbed to death at a party by a man who succesfully claimed self- defence as she was deemed to be a mortal threat to him and others there due to her physical aggression.
There are taboos for men about considering these circumstances which is stupid because it reflects the truth that physical aggression, while predominantly considered to be a male attribute, is biological rather than political and circumstances should be approached from a mixture of contexts as well as physical attributes in a dispassionate way.
The universe is indifferent to personal feelings and our ability to see clearly should be too.
If you’re the type of “human being“ who likes to physically bully and assault others or embark on similar actions, you may have to accept the potential consequences of doing so.)
If people are spraying orange paint on Stonehenge, would you be within the law to use force to stop them. What level of force?
(You can use reasonable force to stop a crime being committed including property damage.
Perhaps use the paint on them and make them wear a sign home that says “I’ve been Tango’d!”.
Personally, as they did go there of their own free will…I think they should be handed over to the druids and a new era of sacrifices to the old gods could begin.
Probably more dependable results-wise than voting while we’re at it too.
Sell tickets, raise money for charity… I’d vote for that.
Who knows maybe the crops would be better next year?
Thanks for the questions, Jeth)
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