520 - (FREE TO READ) Mailbox: Carrying weapons? Duty to defend others vs duty to leave...?
A reader asks whether all self defence advice applies equally to different locations... (S.I./L)
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By email:
“Jeth,
I saw a US instructor mention arming yourself to enable leaving an aggressive situation with either a weapon you are carrying or something nearby. Would this apply in the UK too or just the US where the law seems friendlier to the notion of self defence?
And also, does the law recognise a difference between failing to leave to protect a friend and failing to leave to protect a family member especially one that has a mobility issue?”
Thanks for your question.
It’s dangerous for you to unquestioningly follow self defence advice from anyone without checking stuff yourself or careful consideration, this is especially true of legal issues arising from using force on other people.
My area of study and knowledge sharing is survival oriented self defence for myself and others like me (average men and women that want to be left alone to get on with life). What I am not is a legal professional that specialises in a lawfare game of winning that relies on finances rather than necessarily the truth of a matter - it’s what can be proven as opposed to what actually happened and one should never forget this. Running on assumptions of “rights” and so is folly.
So with this in mind, my standard cover-my-ass disclaimer at the beginning of each post stands as per usual.
Yes, it can seem that we denizens of the Septic Isle enjoy very little of the perceived freedoms to defend ourselves from increasing violent crime that those in the US and elsewhere may appear to have. US readers should understand that not only do we not have a 2nd amendment here, we don’t even have a 1st and my comments should be always understood in that light.
In the UK, it’s illegal for a woman (or man) to carry even a non-lethal deterrent such as defensive spray for example, while walking to work through a high crime area. If she is violently attacked, she would have to rely on physical ability to resist or the smiling of the gods to escape the ordeal.
Against a large/strong rapist or perhaps multiple street tax inspectors looking to redistribute wealth? The odds against are swiftly increasing.
It’s angering to consider these restrictions being placed on a person’s freedom to even defend themselves effectively. But that is the reality here.
The upside is that at least criminals are blocked from accessing weapons.
Oh, hang on, wait…
The US is however, subject to differing state level laws as well as national ones. For instance, as I understand it, it may be legal to carry a gun concealed in one place but not in another (although this is being looked at with the “change of management” recently I believe) and people can fall foul of this when travelling legally armed from one place into another jurisdiction.
The appearance of defence rights in the US seem better from here but from talking to people there, that really is not the case or not in the way you may think.
To go back to the US advice of having weapons on you, carrying any weapon in the UK is illegal - you are not in possession of that right - if it can be proven in any way that you may have been carrying any item as a force multiplier whether it was used in an incident or not- it’s a serious threat to your legal safety and continued freedom.
Don’t do it.
Yes, there may be situational mitigating factors for weapon carry (this is an issue that is forgotten in media headlines and public consciousness about knife crime for example) but you will still be facing legal persecution for doing so.
“Opportunity knocks”… literally.
You can use objects that happen to be around you to enable defence and escape.
As you read this, look around you now. Most of the objects that you see in your environment that can be grabbed easily by you at this moment will most likely fall under the heading of a blunt object rather than a potential edged weapon. Whether they are thrown or wielded in some fashion they will probably cause greater or lesser degrees of blunt force trauma if weaponised and used.
A cup in a kitchen
A chair in a public area
A laptop at the office
A rock outside
What about things you already have on you?
From a recent private women’s self defence workshop - an older lady with some mobility issues asked “Can I use a walking stick?” - she had one with her and I gave examples of usage for that group.
She had a provable reason for carrying a stick and it’s potential use against a presumably male aggressor would most likely stand legally as long as the requirements for “self defence” were proven to be met.
Please refer to the book “Blunt Weapon Tactics” as it covers this specifically and with a UK viewpoint, as well as the reasoning behind certain uses of the stick that will get a more dependable result along with examples of sticks and objects that can be used. I also cover shortcomings of common ill thought out assumptions of using similar objects to defend your safety in the event of aggressive assault.
Buy “Blunt Weapon Tactics” here:
Amazon USA (Click to visit book page)
Amazon UK (click to visit book page)
On leaving, different individuals
To go back to your second question about the decision to stay at an incident not because you personally cannot leave but rather that you will not leave a friend or relative who is facing physical aggression and whether there would be a legal difference there?
It’s interesting as the situation you mention here already blows apart the glib argument from idiots of “Why learn to defend yourself? I’d just run away!”. This limited experience and thinking is the preserve of those frankly beyond help and I don’t have any inclination to stop and walk them slowly through the problems with this attitude.
Aside from whatever situation this is, as that’s a huge area in itself, and away also from your actual legal relationship with the person, what role does that person have in your life?
Some people’s families are abusive, destructive and negative, a friend might therefore be more of a family member to an individual to whom this applied to than one recognised by the authorities as such. Yes, no?
Most will think that they would never abandon a relative or friend to some kind of violent encounter. Noble ideals indeed based on a straightforward world view, but the world is not straightforward or easy to predict.
What if that person were the cause of the entire event?
What if this person was ALWAYS the cause and now you are facing severe risk as a result? In many ways, this person is as much a threat to you as the situation you find yourselves involved in thanks to them.
What if you had already found yourself in trouble because of their actions in the past. Any fallout, legal and otherwise would likely take this into account negatively… for you.
This starts to test the parameters of your ethical and moral worldview depending on what they are, not just the legalities of your geographical position.
Do you have the physical agency to actually stop this? Not everyone does, you may be best placed to try and hinder and disrupt an attack by various means rather than entertaining some Hollywood fantasy of stepping in like an alpha.
These are highly personal questions, and I must apologise as they are ones that cannot be answered with a simplistic approach of “If this happens, do this”.or “You’ll be legally OK if it’s this situation and not another”. Anyone telling you bullshit like that should be ignored.
Generally speaking, you are expected to leave trouble if you are able to, before it starts or at the first opportunity to do so. This also applies to anyone that you are with. If that does not happen for whatever reason, you have a limited allowance to use reasonable force to prevent a crime (in this case violent assault).
Legal fallout as well as ramifications of other kinds from violent encounters are extremely difficult to predict as the sheer number of variables involved make each situation unique. Even legal experts may many times struggle to understand and apply the open nature of legislation - whatever their motive.
The best you can do is to train thoroughly and in a level-headed, mature way.
Yes sometimes it really is a case of “I wasn’t looking for trouble, it was looking for me” but until then (if it even ever happens), make it your personal code to avoid it as best you can.
Identify specific threats for YOUR personal situation and construct the best plan you can based on a reliable range of appropriate solutions and start actively practicing it through training.
Thanks so much for your questions,
Jeth